GCSAA Podcast
The official podcast of the Golf Course Superintendent Association of America turns a spotlight on the stories of GCSAA's members and the vital role they play in the game of golf's overall success. The podcast is also a vehicle to showcase association products and services that can help members do their jobs better, faster and more cost-effectively.
GCSAA Podcast
63. Fairways to Leadership: A conversation with GCSAA President Jeff White, CGCS
This episode of the GCSAA Podcast features GCSAA’s 87th president, Jeff White, CGCS. Jeff and podcast host Scott Hollister peel back the turf to reveal the meticulous craft of keeping a club like Indian Hills Country Club in pristine condition while navigating the strategic fairways of the GCSAA. Jeff talks about his introduction to the industry, his mentors along the way and his vision for GCSAA.
The GCSAA Podcast is presented in partnership with Envu.
Greetings all and welcome to the GCSAA podcast presented in partnership with Enview. I'm your host, scott Hollister, and I'm happy to have you with us today. Our guest for episode 63 of the podcast is the 87th president of GCSAA, jeff white, cgcs. Jeff is the director of agronomy at indian hills country club in mission hills, kansas, where he's been since 2013. Jeff has a long track record of service on both the chapter and national levels and has been a part of the gcsa board of directors since 2018. Jeff's proximity to GCSA headquarters Indian Hills is about 45 miles east of Association HQ in lovely Lawrence, kansas. That proximity has always given him a unique perspective on association governance and issues. So we talked with Jeff about all of that his career in golf course management and how he'll be approaching his year in office. And because of that proximity, we took advantage of the opportunity to record this one live and in person at Indian Hills. So the video version of the podcast will give you a little different perspective, thanks to the work done by my colleagues Tyler Stover and Roger Billings. I want to thank them for joining me at the club and I want to thank Indian Hills for their hospitality and for allowing us to turn one of their rooms in the clubhouse into a makeshift recording studio for episode 63 of the GCSA podcast with Association President Jeff White. A quick reminder that you have options when it comes to listening to the GCSA podcast. There is, of course, the traditional audio version available wherever you get your podcast, but we also have video versions available on GCSA's YouTube channel as well as on GCSA TV. So, whatever your preferred method, we have you covered. So please check those out, subscribe if you haven't already, and rate and review us. If the spirit moves you With that, let's go.
Speaker 1:This is episode 63 of the GCSAA podcast featuring GCSAA's 87th president, jeff White, cgcs. Well, it's not very often that we record these podcasts in person, face-to-face. Part of that is the convenience of technology like Zoom and stuff. I can interview folks from all over the globe thanks to the magic of Zoom, which we all discovered during the pandemic. But when the president of GCSA is 15 minutes down the road from your home, you come to the club, you get a fabulous room like this and you do it in person. Jeff White, the 87th president of GCSA, is our guest today. How are you doing? I'm doing well, thank you Good. Thanks for taking the time. You officially took office during the annual meeting in Phoenix and I know pretty much right away you just started going, as we. We record this early April, so it's been about two months. What have those two months been like for?
Speaker 2:you track meet. It's been. Uh, I thought I was ready and able and I'm obviously ready and able, but I it's. It's faster pace than I thought. I'm almost not a quarter into my presidential year, but as we, as the golf season wakes up here and and the things that are going on my my paying job and trying to keep up with that and do um.
Speaker 2:You know, help, do my service to gcsa. Uh, it's gone a lot quicker. Uh, I just did a a um update for the club here and it was they titled it. Where in the world is jeff white and it?
Speaker 2:was uh it was kind of cool to put the pins on the map and and give a little background of where I've been and what's been going on and and uh, it's been a great experience, uh, better than I expected, uh, going in and it's, but it's been non-stop and uh, we're in a little bit of a lull here between um, um, allied activities and then getting back into board, the strategic planning and spring board meeting coming up here next week.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, and it's probably a good time to have a bit of a lull, because the grass is starting to wake up here and I'm sure your members are chomping at the bit to get out there and play. So at least give you a little bit of time to get you and your crew kind of focused on heading into the season. You got anything big planned around here as you head into the season this year.
Speaker 2:No, once we leave project mode we hit maintenance mode. And the way our schedule is set up, we have a very active golf membership. Lots of functions, lots of special events, lots of activity all day, every day, not necessarily all in the golf course, but lots of food and beverage activity that becomes part of my world as well. So we have about five directors that we all have to be on the same page to function and make it come off without a hitch, and so those meetings have been going on all the last couple of weeks, and with my staff as well.
Speaker 1:No major projects no, we have our usual golf schedule, which is packed full um six days a week well, hopefully mother, mother nature cooperates, uh, with you to kind of allow you to juggle all this stuff, you and you I know you've got a great crew here working for you. We'll talk about them in a little bit. Um, I want to start off. We'll start some personal stuff first off, you and I. This will be a rehash on some of this stuff for us because we covered a lot of the same ground for the story in GCM. So I'd suggest anyone listening or watching head over to GCM online you can find the story that ran in the March issue on Jeff. But from that I want to just kind of talk about you a little bit, your career, how you kind of got to where you are now. Grew up in a small town in Iowa, osceola, iowa, that's, I guess, southeast south central, yeah, south central Iowa.
Speaker 1:What was golf like if you were growing up in Osceola Iowa?
Speaker 2:like several other midwestern states. I'm not sure who currently owns a record for nine hole facilities per capita. It's got to be us or Kansas, what do they do? So I switched states but I probably hold the same record. But we had a small town, like a lot of small towns, a little nine hole course. We did actually have bent grass greens on the one I grew up on, but some of the surrounding areas had sand greens and that was probably where I really learned to play.
Speaker 2:Golf was um out you could, you know you. You had an honor box, you put money in, you went and you played all day, uh, hit sand greens, rake your own line, um. But um, golf was not a big part of my outdoor experience when I was a kid. We did a lot of lake stuff, we did a lot of traveling as a family um several different sports, but outdoors was my, was my jam golf. A lot of lake stuff. We did a lot of traveling as a family um several different sports, but outdoors was my, was my jam golf. A lot of my friends, as we grew up, got into golf and then and uh, I joined them and and kind of learned um more about playing golf. Um, not the world of golf, the business of golf that I'm in now, but um from that experience.
Speaker 1:I also have sand green experience. Baker University, my alma mater, had a little.
Speaker 2:Baldwin City, Kansas.
Speaker 1:Baldwin City Country Club was a nine-hole sand green. Exactly the same experience. The old Folgers can sitting on what amounted to the clubhouse, which was more of a shed than anything. Although we would rarely putt I don't know if you actually putted we would putt we were bad enough that if you simply were able to land the ball on the sand green, we just added a stroke and considered it good and we and we moved on. But yeah, I had a lot, of, a lot of fond memories. I think there's only a handful of states that still have high school sand green golf tournaments. I think kansas and iowa are among a probably less than five.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me. I have been invited to Men's League at that facility numerous times over the last few years and I just haven't had the bandwidth to do it. But one of my bucket listers is to join this infamous Men's League Wednesday night extravaganza on the sand greens of Baldwin City Country Club.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is. I haven't been there in well, probably since right after school At least. I've been to Baldwin, but not to the golf course. Well, sand greens not a lot of turf grass management when you're dealing with sand greens other than just the gang mo and the fairways and roughs and roughs um, I know you, you ended up getting work on a golf course. Um, as you were growing up, did you ever envision, did, did the connection ever click, for you to go? Hey, this turf grass management thing is kind of interesting to me. Maybe I can marry this too, or was it? Was it largely just a summer job, basically?
Speaker 2:early on I worked for the city parks and rec, both in like pool, pool maintenance and all those things also. All the parks, cemeteries, mode cemeteries. That's an interesting, you know dynamic and vibe. When you're doing that, you know some things can go pretty dark in your mind at that eight hour day on that day but, uh, I didn't put it together as golf and turf grass management and all that until I was in school.
Speaker 2:I I just knew I wanted to be outside and and um and love the game, the challenge, the, the things that come along with the turf grass management side. And as we move on, you know, in my career, you know it becomes less about the part I love about the business and more about the business, and that's just part of growing up and part of experiencing, you know, hitting career goals and moving up the ladder. But I do miss occasionally. I do go out on uh and and the guys will send somebody out to get me and I'll be, I'll be like if I don't tell you to come get me, I don't want to be guy like there's a reason why I'm on the piece of equipment that takes the longest thing thing to mow or do or whatever we're doing out there. And I do still love it.
Speaker 2:And, uh, it was my accident, more than anything, that I ended up in turfgrass management, the golf course business. But it's been my whole career and I've loved it. It's been very rewarding and a big part of my life and provided for me and my family. It's been a great, great ride.
Speaker 1:You obviously had an amazing mentor during your days at Iowa State in John Newton, recent winner of the GCSA's Colonel John Morley Award and there's some other mentors we'll touch on as we continue here. But what role did John have in really introducing you to what the business was, what this career was, and just the overall influence he had on kind of setting you on this course?
Speaker 2:I think probably the biggest thing, and I don't know if I've ever put it in an article or I've ever said it to him or out loud or any of my communications. But the one thing that I took away from John was it's still a job right and it's grass, it's still it's a job, it's a job right and it's grass. And his, his, his leadership and his kind of mentality were like come in, have fun, get it done.
Speaker 2:And I think that carried with me um much to the not beneficial parts of some of my other people who I work for, of the have fun, get it done attitude, um, but I think, and I still, I still, when I get in a bind and I'm, you know I've reached out through my network and all those things and I'm banging my head against the wall when I boil it all out and cool off, or on the drive home, or however I get there, you know it was about have fun, get it done. I mean, it's it's not easy what we do, but it is fun and it can be fun even in the most challenging times if you keep that attitude as you work your way through the process.
Speaker 1:I've been fortunate, you've been fortunate enough to see maintenance operations at a lot of majors, big giant events, worldwide attention, stress levels unbelievably high, sleep unbelievably low, but everyone is just having a ball Even though they were up at 3.30 and half their work is done in the dark and the weather you're dealing with and all that stuff. That's eye-opening to have those opportunities to kind of see that stuff and know that that kind of philosophy that you learned from someone like John really extends throughout the industry and big events like that.
Speaker 2:And having had the good fortune to go see the places I've seen and be a part of the experience and behind the scenes, looks at all different kinds of facilities and majors and local golf tournaments, whatever. But there's a time to be serious and there's an eye for detail and all the things that go in. But that work has all been done as they lead up to that event, like when they right, you can walk, you can look back and watch the good ones go through that week in one of two ways as a dictator and a control person, control type of person, or a person who built the staff, believes in the staff and lets it run and has fun. Everybody has fun because, to your point, yeah, there's lots of accolades and lots of cool parts of that experience and I've never personally been in that position, nor do I maybe care to, because I've seen plenty of people along the way that I got to experience it, but not the whole thing, right. And and then the other part of that, that equation is you watch the leaders, that, that that really develop a team, that that have that mentality like, yeah, it is a grind, that seven day stretch, that you're in the actual event, but they make it a point to check in on their staff and make it fun and have games and have free time and and uh, because I think you have to. You have to somehow get to the other side.
Speaker 2:And and the john, we experienced a lot of problems, and I was, we were all college kids, right, we didn't necessarily have a vested interest in that, then it was our home course for our university. But you know, we it was not easy to, even though it's an easier climate than I grew up and now it was. We always had our challenges and he never. He never fit, he never looked rough, ruffled, he would just. You know, we just got a, we made a plan, stuck to it, did it and and a lot was a lot of hard work. It was always fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unflappable. I mean I didn't know John. I knew of John. I didn't know John before he received the award and had a chance to obviously meet him and spend some time with him and pretty impressive. I knew his son, as you do, mark Newton, who's been kind of a fixture in both golf and on the industry side down here in the Kansas City area. But it's been cool getting to know him and I think there's a lot of similarities obviously. But I think that Midwestern upbringing is kind of commonplace where you grew up, where I grew up here in Kansas, and that kind of extends to what got you down here to the Sunflower State eventually. Another Iowa stater, dick Stuntz, who was a longtime superintendent at Alvamar in Lawrence. You had another awesome mentor in Pat Finlan who got you to Lake Quivira in the Kansas City area, and folks probably know Pat from his stint as a GCSA president, time at the Olympic Club, now enjoying life in the wilds of Montana, but Dick also was very involved in the association.
Speaker 2:So my question is kind of when you were brought down here when you were at Albemarle you were at the time I think it was the old was that the old association headquarters building? The headquarters building? I think it's still there. The original headquarters building was, I think it's still there, the original headquarters. But I think building one was built when I got my be my internship year. They're still in headquarters, but shortly thereafter um building one was built and the the building was on the 16th hole, the public, the then public course, which is now the jack club, which is now no longer I don't know what hole it is yeah, I drove through there the other day and I'm like I don't really know.
Speaker 1:I used to know where I am. I don't know, yeah, no, no but uh, um, did you have a connection to GCSA back then? I mean, you're a stone's throw of two iron from from headquarters, did you have it? Did you feel you had a connection?
Speaker 2:uh, at that point with with the association you know, probably not, I didn't, but I was 22 years old. I didn't have a lot of vision other than getting through that day and then, uh, you know, getting through that day and going to the, the next pub or whatever. We're doing that day after work, playing golf. We played a lot of golf that time at the time period. But even though the building was there and I was was employed in the city that is still our headquarters um, I don't think I had a connection but I hadn't been shown the path either. And we did a lot of interaction with gcsa staff back then, with, you know, orientations and committee meetings and stuff would be on property. But but I just never wasn't in a position that maybe needed GCSA at the point, but also didn't really understand the who and what GCSA is either.
Speaker 2:Um, probably not even well by the time I left Avamar I I I was a little more connected, um, but really it was in and and you know Dick was very connected because he's there forever and and was part of the thing, but probably didn't make the true jump from understanding the, the why and the reasons and the of being of the of GCSA until I started working for Pat and also very involved, you know, a successful career with his on the golf course side, but also on the association side. And as I became more involved at the local level, then that connection between home chapter and the mothership as I like to refer to GCSA as is it was, you know, that connection just was fostered and grow grew from there it's interesting both of the, both of those gentlemen, uh, dick and uh and Pat have had obviously great turf grass related careers, but they've also expanded.
Speaker 1:You know Dick's done some golf course ownership he was actually the president of the National Golf Course Owners Association. Um, not in the too distant past Pat has grown into general manager roles, took a pretty high position within the Olympic Club in San Francisco. Now he's done some consulting. So interesting how both of their careers have kind of started on turf and moved elsewhere. Do you have designs on anything like general manager?
Speaker 2:I do and I don't.
Speaker 2:I mean I, I know, at some point at you know five o'clock, alarm clocks and wake up calls and just physically, uh, you know the, the seasonal grind, I just won't be, I'll be ready to do something different.
Speaker 2:I don't know what that something different will be. It'll be, it will be in golf. I just don't know what that would be, um, but i'm'll be. It will be in golf. I just don't know what that would be, um, but I'm going to do what I'm doing for as long as this club will have me and I love it here and they treat me well and they're gracious people and really, um, respect what we do, uh, in our industry and and trust me as their expert. Even though Google is out there and you know we have a ton of Internet agramas at all our facilities that like to tell us how to do our jobs, you know. So I foresee something like that in my career and as far as involvement in my local and the national chapter, amongst other duties in organizations, really came from them too, that what you get out of it is way bigger than what you will ever put in it, and what opportunities and doors that will open for you, for putting yourself out there and giving back to the career that you chose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you had an opportunity to kind of see that, as Dick was involved. You talked about I remember doing my orientation, going to Alphamart. That was really my first exposure to the management side of golf, pat. The same way we talked when we were doing the interview for the story, that there wasn't necessarily an aha moment, we were like I am ready to serve. It was more of just a gradual process where you saw the way those gentlemen operated. They started to bring you to chapter meetings. You started to see that, see that stuff. I'm curious, was there a point as your involvement continued and and that you said, hey, I'm, I'm kind of interested in national service? I've done a lot with my home chapter, the heart of america. I've got to shout out the local, local heck yeah um chapters.
Speaker 2:We got the kansas, ozark, mississippi valley, we got a bunch of us around here. So iowa, we'll throw, we'll throw we'll throw iowa in there too open the door for the all the midwestern chapters.
Speaker 1:But as you started to serve on that, was there a point where you know maybe you talk to leanne or maybe you talk to some folks and you say you know what I'm kind of interested in, in taking this to another step, another level?
Speaker 2:well preface what I'm going to say next with. First, I'm going to say that and you may or may not have got this out of either one of Dick or Pat, but I would wager that neither one of them thought that I would ever become the 87th GCSA president. They both mentored me in a really young part of my career and they're probably second-guessing themselves as to leading me down this path, but I don't know if there was an aha moment. But as you experience what you experience in my local service and then being on national task groups and committees and meeting those groups of people from all over the country and the world, and then serving as chapter delegate for the heart of america and meeting another group of people and having true friendships with a lot of staff, just because of my location, to the, to the, to headquarters, it just seemed kind of natural like, yeah, I think I want to do this, and there there's a lot of reasons why to do it and what I think I can bring to the the table and um, so I don't know if there was like, yeah, let's, let's do it.
Speaker 2:I think Pat was probably the one that the end. That was like I think you should do this. When you do it, it's up to you. There's no good time, there's no right time to run, it's when you feel comfortable, and so he's probably the one that pushed me to go further than what I was already doing. But there was no aha moment, it was just a natural progression, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's probably natural. A lot of folks who have preceded you in this, in this path, and those will come afterwards probably what would say the same thing, as it just became a natural thing, it became part of your life. I mean that to serve and to give back and do those things, and so it kind of makes sense to to get to this point. We're sitting here in your home, in your club, here at Indian Hills, mission Hills, kansas, as we record this. I bet a lot of folks listening are probably curious. If they're in a role and they're like man, I wouldn't mind considering doing something for my chapter or whatnot, but I don't know how my club would react. What kind of support has this place provided you as you've kind of undertaken this journey?
Speaker 2:Well, you start that conversation first with your family. Okay, absolutely taking this journey.
Speaker 2:Well, you, start that conversation first with your family, um, because that they're going to be affected probably more than your, your, your employer Um and I. I I asked early on, before I was kind of ready to go run for the first time, um, because I need their support and I needed to show them a picture of what this experience like, is like for me. But, on the backside, what, what that experience yields them as well, because if I look back at my first year on the board, compared to where I like, my skill set is quite a bit different and improved because of the experiences I was I've been able to have along the way. Um, but I think it's not for everybody and it's not for every club. But you know, we need people to do the job and and and I I really am proud of the, the range of different people we have on the current board.
Speaker 2:I mean, you got state government, you got family-owned you got state government, you got family owned business, you got high end clubs. You have, you have who GCSA is, and and that's. I think that works well for a board to be made up of its constituents and so to have their support and their. This club is just, it's a, it's a very historical, it's a very traditional club, but they are super excited about hosting USGA qualifiers. Like they want to be connected to the bigger part of the game than just it's their leisure place that they come and that's their second home and that's what we provide them here. But they want to be part of the future of golf too, and so I think they see me doing this as an extension of them and part of their part of, you know, maintaining the game going forward.
Speaker 1:You obviously couldn't do it without the folks down in the maintenance facility. And I guess you can see on I was going to say on the audio you can't see me pointing, but on video you can definitely see me pointing. It's that way? Yeah, that's right. Let's see me pointing. Um, it's that way, yeah, that's right. Uh, kurt, derrick, nick. Um, I'll like just give you a little bit to kind of kind of tip the cap to those guys, because you obviously can't do what you've been able to do with the board of director without support of the team that you've got down in maintenance. So how big, how important have they been to to what you've been able to achieve over the last seven, eight years?
Speaker 2:kurt's the only one, only one, that's been with me the whole time. Derek and Nick are tenured now, but fairly new, and Nick I hired when he was a 16-year-old kid at Lake Revere. He's a little punk kid. Their whole family worked there at Cart Barn and out in golf maintenance and all that. But you know, I built just like I had to build my foundation with my family and my employer, just like I had to build my foundation with my family and my employer, I had to build a foundation and and and those folks in trust and and in them, that that, whether I'm here or not, whether I'm serving for GCSA or not, it's just the right thing to do, because they're, they're going to become better leaders, business people et cetera along the way, and it sets them up for a career. Whether they choose to be involved in association management or not, that's up to them.
Speaker 2:But at least, um, I couldn't do it without them. I tell them all the time, I thank them all the time because I cannot, I could not be away and still have my mental health if they were not here. Um, running the show. Um, in fact, in today's world I probably get in the way more than I do you know, help when I'm here. But and I've tried to, I've tried to that's been a hard because I'm we all have a little bit of type A and a little bit of control freakiness in this business and it's hard to let go and let them. You know, I give them a list and let them go build it and let them do it and it doesn't have to be my way. But I can't thank them enough for all that they do for me because I couldn't do it without them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's Curt Lading your equipment manager, derek VanWart, who's superintendent? Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And then Nick is a top assistant here, Yep. So it's been fun for me getting to know those guys a little bit, being in the neighborhood and getting to come over here as much as I have. They've been cool guys to get to know and they do really they make you look good, so that's and they do, indeed, and we do have a.
Speaker 2:you know, I got a bunch of K-Staters, obviously because and I appreciate that about them. Because of the school and I have Kurt who's a Jayhawk. You know, when I moved here from Ames Iowa to Lawrence Kansas, like that was a hard move man. Like watching your team die in Allen Fieldhouse in a basketball season is just not a pleasant experience.
Speaker 1:We have that in common with my team as well, that happens a lot in Allen Fieldhouse for my team, so well, let's take a quick break. We've got to pay some bills.
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Speaker 1:All right, welcome back. We're still sitting here with Jeff Light.
Speaker 2:We haven't moved no we probably should have during the break.
Speaker 1:We should have gotten up and done some calisthenics or something. But Jeff Light, 87th president of GCSA, the director of agronomy at Indian Hills Country Club here in Mission Hills, kansas, our gracious host today, Problem solver.
Speaker 1:Thank all your fellow leaders here for letting us come in here and set up all this stuff and do this. At the club we talked about your career a little bit, how you got into service, and I want to kind of pivot now and talk about some association matters that are that are going on and um, and just kind of let you. We talked about this when we worked on the story and, um, you know, I think the overarching uh point that you made at that time was was not, unlike other presidents, you have one year in office, unless you're kevin breen. Then you get two thanks to kevin sunderman or there's a world war or something else.
Speaker 2:That that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some sort of uh, some sort of uh uh, big worldwide event, but, uh, when you're in office, you, you. This isn't something where you can come in with a full agenda and put something in in in 12 months, so turning the battleship that is GCSAA uh can can be difficult. However, um, there were certain things that you wanted to kind of focus on, or at least continue that had been started by your predecessors in this role. First off, just on the, maybe just share what your overall your goals were coming into this year. I think we made some of those points in the story, but how did you view your 12 months in this seat?
Speaker 2:You said you can't steer the battleship. My goal was to not sink the battleship. That's right.
Speaker 2:Financially or any other way, shape or form, not sink the battleship.
Speaker 2:But I think what I took out of your question one thing was I don't think you should come in as president in a 12 month span and bring an agenda and and try to steer the battleship.
Speaker 2:That's not what your role is. Your role is to continue the path, that that and hopefully find it, leave it better than you found it and set it and keep the foundation moving, foundation blocks that we have built through the strategic plan, all those things we do and then there's always going to be something that comes up like. There's always going to be a top five or a hot button or or something like that. But the one thing that's not going away anytime soon is all the, the, the advocating for ourselves and protecting our resources, and that's kind of where my my whole term as a board member and president and then up to the chairs has been let's tell our story and be part of the solution, not wait for it to be told to us and then have to deal with the consequences. And that's not an easy thing to do, but it's a way that I think we can have something better for those who come behind me to build upon from there.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a perfect segue. You must have been looking at my notes here because I wanted to start off and talk about advocacy and talk about, I mean, as I mentioned in the first half, we are recording this in early April. In about a month from now will be National Golf Day in Washington DC. In about a month from now will be National Golf Day in Washington DC. It's become, you know, kind of a hallmark event on the calendar for the association. I don't know how you know and you might have a better feel for this. You know, interacting with your peers here locally Kind of hard to get a sense of the overall membership.
Speaker 1:Obviously there is a core group that are unbelievably involved. There's going to be over 200 GCSA members taking part in that event. But what would you tell kind of the rank and file about the importance of that event and, more broadly, kind of the importance of the advocacy efforts that the association has really focused a lot of time, energy and resources on increasing Well, well, I would say advocacy in general, with whether you talk about national golf day and before that, just meetings on the hill or whatnot, and where we were when I my young part of my career to where we are now.
Speaker 2:We're light years ahead of and that's taken staff members, others, connections, networking, all those things to get to where we are and I feel like we finally are recognized, we finally have a seat at the table. People do listen to what we have to say and that's not necessarily what I see when I travel the rest of the world around us, our friends to the north and and friends in the EU. They don't have that, they haven't been able to make that click. And do we have an uphill challenge? That lies ahead of us A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:But where we sit now compared to where we were and where we're headed, I think is paramount. Like we are, it's never going to go away and it's never going to um get any easier. But we've developed relationships, um, and built bridges to have successful and, um, you know, find some common ground, find some common sense solutions to problems that we do face and that takes all of us. And I would say to those who haven't done. I went to National Golf Day before I was on the board. I enjoy DC parts of it. There's parts of the political process that I don't care to be involved in, but I think that's where we have to be, like we have to be. That's why we have 535 ambassadors.
Speaker 1:That's why we have this partnership with the pga tour I mean the pga of america like we have to keep building this net, casting this net to, to protect ourselves, our careers, our professions and the the tools and resources we need along the way I've been lucky enough to take part in not all but a host of National Golf Days, and the difference, the doors that are open to GCSAA and the superintendent profession now whether that's with legislators or regulators compared to what they were when this effort first started, is night and day, and I'm sure you've seen it as you because you've taken many more meetings than I've been a part of. But I'm Sure you're getting. The opportunities you're getting now are far different than the opportunities that we had 10, 15 years ago.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, we would have never wanted to be in the room with the EPA in the old days, like that was like taboo, or OSHA or any other regulatory you know organization or part of government. But we've through Hava and all her work, and and michael and bob and the whole, that whole team. But that three-person team can't do it all either. We all have to be part of the machine. But to to develop those relationships and develop, to develop the ability to sit in that room and have a civil conversation is it's, it's life changing, career changing for all of us, and I I'm, I've been blessed to be a part of seeing that those opinions and perceptions change and be able to be in the room with those folks and and have real conversations, not, you know, just blowing smoke advocacy.
Speaker 1:Obviously there's a huge trickle down to members all over the country when the association undertakes efforts like that. Similarly, turfgrass research is another area that will benefit not only you know superintendents like yourself at a club like Indian Hills, but superintendents all over the country. Big event for that effort for the association is also upcoming. April 22nd through the 28th, that's Rounds for Research. I'll kind of let you get on your soapbox here, tell you know members that might not know what Rounds for Research is. Just you know very quickly what it is and why do you think it's such a key initiative for GCSAA.
Speaker 2:Well, if you don't know what Rounds for Research is, by now you just have not read or emailed or a publication or any other way, shape or form of communication that would tell you what Rounds for Research is. We use it here locally to fund well, we were funding two universities, missouri and Kansas State, but to help them because the public, well, the governmental sector and the private sector there's not as much funding available as there once was. And going back to kind of advocacy, not rounds for research, no-transcript, and we'll some, it'll be, it'll be approved probably before November because it's election year. But rounds for research and I just got an update yesterday I think we are ahead year over year by a good chunk of change and it's starting to take the effects. The why is starting, people are starting to get the why and how beneficial it can be, whether you're a small chapter, big chapter.
Speaker 2:If you're a small chapter, get together with a bunch of small chapters. If you're a big chapter, you're already successful. But we have to do our part. This is another way of doing our part our membership and actually the end user. We're selling rounds to people who are the end user and that's a connection that GCSA has never really been able to make before, and so now we're starting to get partners along the way in that, whether it's golf associations or local sections of the pga or whatever, to come along to be part of that, that growth and that, and the to share in the workload of generating, gathering the rounds, getting in the auction, getting the money back to the chapters and and those chapters using it for, for, to help support their, their local turf gas researchers you're seeing an increase in the number of courses who are appreciating the effort and donating rounds to be auctioned off, and then golfers I think are also being are starting to go.
Speaker 1:Hey, there's some pretty awesome golf courses uh available there and I can help the game that I love by by participating in that. So both of those efforts are hugely important. Rounds for research. Just head over to GCSA's website, you can. You can search for that and find all the information you need it's been on the front page for like four months you've missed it you.
Speaker 2:Maybe you're just not looking, but having to your point about some of these bigger, well-known facilities, get on, get on board. And if you can't donate rounds, if, if your membership or your clientele or whoever you work for will not allow you, there's always a cash donation. Right, we take, we take money, no matter how you want to give it and uh, chef, white indian hills, I'm sure you will direct that in the proper area. Send it to me, no, just kidding.
Speaker 1:Let's pivot to another effort that you and I spoke about for the GCM story, but that's the association's increased interest in workforce development, labor, addressing the huge labor challenges that you know, despite your facility size, your budget. Golf courses, big and small, all over the country, are wrestling with this and I and also will tie in the first green there obviously, efforts like the first green where the stem now steam education program that's bringing, it's bringing schoolchildren to golf courses and using golf courses as living laboratories, those are kind of long plays, but talk about, I mean, maybe, what kind of labor challenges do you face here and as just a superintendent who has to fill those spots, what do efforts like this from the National Association kind of mean to you and do you see the light at the end of the tunnel from efforts such as these?
Speaker 2:that was like three questions. By the way, I'm really throwing curveballs. That was a lot. That was a lot to digest and to dissect I want to make sure that one answer, but I'll get it done all right, so we're going to back up to where you started.
Speaker 2:I don't know that I can honestly name all the work initiatives that is going on in gca right now, nor all of the other associations and all the work initiatives that is going on in GCSA right now, nor all of the other associations and all the other parts of the business and every other industry, but I will say we are better off today than we were in general. Just, it doesn't matter whether we're talking about McDonald's or golf course superintendents that there seems to be a trend to people being back at work.
Speaker 2:Right, but I think we're in coming up here in in next week at our two meetings, that will be a big part of of all the, all the pieces the, the warrior alliance, the steam stem, um, first, green um, name, name, name. All the stuff that's out there. Other associations, industries, are doing something similar. Ffa is coalescing that all together and, to your point, it is a long game and it's going to be even more present and prevalent as the boomers roll out and there's going to be all these great jobs that come open and we're just not filling the pipeline from a line employee all the way up to golf course superintendent, so that I use the word foundation a lot. But we, the foundation is built now. How do we make it now? How do we make it go? That's the next steps and that's that's a big part of our. The board's current strategic plan is to get that all moving in one direction and help fill the need.
Speaker 2:Because here locally I was talking to a superintendent, kind of on the outside of the city, you know hired two people, individuals, in for more money than he'd ever hired anybody in for and still try to keep a gap between your seasonal staff and full timers or if it's a full time employee. You know it's hard to manage the numbers right now because you don't know where you need to be sort of and you don't want to undercut your full time, your tenured staff and whatnot, and so, individually we all have a different challenge. But that's a challenge of today that maybe we didn't see coming, but they were literally on site for like two weeks, um, and just let's talk, walked off. Yeah, and it's. It's a number that's larger than than than you know, minimum wage or the fast food restaurant, whether you're going fast food, restaurant rate or whatever.
Speaker 2:Um, so that's when I hadn't seen coming. That we'll have to figure out. You know the number is never going to be right or the number that should be, let's, it's just not. But how can we help recruit the next generation? We'll be part of this, coalescing all these other programs into one moving forward.
Speaker 1:Golf course management. It's a challenging job. I mean you are exposed to the elements. It's it's hard work. It can be physical work. It's not. It's a challenging job. I mean you are exposed to the elements. It's hard work. It can be physical work. It's not for everyone. Those who love it, like yourself and the team you've built here, they love it, man, and it feeds that and I've seen that all over. But yeah, you're right, I mean that kind of comes with the territory.
Speaker 2:It's not everyone is going to jump into this kind of work and go oh hey, this is my life's calling so, but it's it's us, who have been who, who, who do love it and have been in it forever, that need to to, to share that story.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Not the, not the. The negativity side of it the, the, the stuck in it. Stay with it. Right, we need to share that story with the younger folks and show them that there's a, there's an opportunity to have a great career doesn't have to be in golf course maintenance. It can be in the golf shop or it can be anywhere in the club or golf course industry.
Speaker 2:But, um, obviously we're going to advocate for the, our portion right and uh, try to bring those folks into into the, into the fold the last kind of topic I wanted to touch on.
Speaker 1:It's a little bit full circle because it supports advocacy. It supports a lot of the other things that the association is trying to do. That's the environmental programs efforts that GCSA puts forth and the BMPs, the best management practices for golf courses. There's been a wide effort to bring those to state levels, then down to local levels, then down to facility levels. Some superintendents might go. You know I'm interested. I'm obviously an outdoorsman, so I'm interested in doing the right thing for my golf course. I don't want to pollute. It also makes business sense for my facility not to overwater, not to use too many products. But they don't see that connection to broader efforts like advocacy and things like that, broader efforts like advocacy and things like that. You've been there on the front lines and you've seen how some of those environmental efforts that have been important to GCSA have benefited us when connecting with regulators and legislators. What have your experiences been like that and why do you personally feel those efforts are so important for the association?
Speaker 2:I think if you travel to Canada or Europe, you'll see why the BMPs are important, not just that every state has one, but as many facilities as we can, because it's always better to be proactive than reactive. And that's how we've gotten here even to get to the BMPs state by state, but then moving it forward, and you've seen folks that have had to do it because they were up against the wall.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And you never want to be in that position. You always want to try to be connecting the dots before it's dictated to you how you're going to operate. And that's why the BMPs at the local level are as important as anything else we do. Because when you, when I'm going to go sit down with my city government or state government or whoever I'm sitting down with, and I have 500 golf courses in their, in their area and 350 of them have bmps, they're not all going to be cookie cutter either. It's going to be done to that, to that facility, just like mine is done to mine versus the state manual. So that is a good tool and toolbox to protect ourselves moving forward in, because we don't even know what the next level, the next set of battles, that we will be right, so at least we can control the narrative now and build that base and then.
Speaker 2:But we, we, we, we have yet to figure how, how to make that connection for folks who just don't want to do it on their own and think it's the right thing to do. Right, that's where we are now. And then, once we do that, how do you, how do you show that people are truly they don't still have. It's not a piece of paper on somebody's desk, right, it's being used. Yeah, it's being used, and so I think that's our next thing that boards, so on and so forth, will be challenged with. Moving forward is to continue the progress we've already made, but take to the next level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were talking about the long game with, like the first green workforce development, some of those efforts, the efforts with the F, the ffa, things like that. That really applies to all of these. Um, you, you can't take your fifth step until you take your first step. So it's building that foundation.
Speaker 1:Um, that's happened with bmps started at the creating an overall plan, moving that to the state level, then into the individual facility level. Um, and I think it also kind of informs board service you're, you're in that, you're in the boardroom as a member of the National Board of Directors for anywhere from seven to nine years depending, and kind of goes back to what we talked about the, the little battleship axiom. You're not trying to do that because you've been involved in these efforts for for eight or nine years and that's really probably, I would imagine, how you, you folks view that service is that I was part of this team for that time and I want to look at the accomplished, what has changed from between year one and year nine, and I'm assuming that's kind of how you guys view your time on the board yeah, and I and you the.
Speaker 2:The byproduct of a lot of the stuff that I'll use first green, because it's not about showing people that, it is about showing people about our career, but stories you hear from all over the country is also changing the perception of of the golf course world, of that we're you, that we're toxic to the environment and we're doing all these things. And there's all these other little things that we didn't maybe see or know or thought that would be part of the reason why that have now in all of the whether you're talking about labor or regulation of pesticides and fertilizers, like all the pieces tie together. And so seeing that through and then seeing where you were when you started as a first year board member, to where is this, it's kind of a great experience and and we hope we're doing the right things for the right reasons. But it's, um, that's what it should be is is. It's not a, it's not a grade card, it's not a scorecard, it's not a.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean I'm not a. You know, I mean I'm sure I would. You know, members would love if I raised another billion dollars and their dues would stay the same, right, I mean. But that's not the why and that's not how it works. But I just want to see some of the things that were started in my younger part of my board service and before I was on the board come to fruition. But all the little stuff that's tied together you just don't. If I was a just a she says a member not very involved in a local or national association, I wouldn't get it.
Speaker 2:But seeing that from uh from in the boardroom is quite different than just um. You know, outside looking in, and it's been a great uh experience. You know, outside looking in, and it's been a great experience and taught me a lot along the way front row seat for all of that.
Speaker 1:So well, there's no good segue here. I have, uh, because I've got some a couple of fun quick hitters to hit you with here. But, um, uh, I've appreciated you taking the time today to do this. Um and uh, you and I never have fun when we're together I really struggle to do that, but these will be pretty good.
Speaker 1:So, first off, you're a hobby farmer now, or at least I think that's what you called yourself last time we were chatting. You've got a little place kind of between Kansas City and Lawrence. What's the best part about that new livestock? It's relatively new, and what's the worst part?
Speaker 2:The best part is the sunset every day. Uh, it's, it never gets old. The hard part, or the worst part, is I need all the tools and stuff that my members provide for me here equipment, etc. Uh, to paying that for that with my own money versus paying for it with their money two different stories uh, you haven't bought a trailer and you're bringing stuff back.
Speaker 1:I have haven't bought a trailer and you're just bringing stuff back and forth.
Speaker 2:I have bought a trailer, I have bought several other things, but family-based, the family heritage will continue with our small little tract of land, the land I've ventured down. I've spent about four hours mowing some pasture. The other day it was kind of peaceful, tranquil.
Speaker 1:There was no cell phone buzzing, there was no there you go it was a way to get get away from it all yeah, it's like getting away here climbing on a mower and mowing roughs or whatever. When you're trying to clear your mind, you get to do that. 100 the homestead? Uh as well. All right, a couple of golf?
Speaker 2:uh, golf, ones favorite golf course you've ever played I've ever played, uh, and some of them won't be the actual course, but the people I played them with um that I was happy to know those people. But um, um, cypress points one, sage valleys one um, I haven't played the old course but um played um jubilee. I mean, there's so many great tracks, there's so many great tracks in every state that you'll never go play. And in my own state I haven't even played the best courses in my own state because there's just not enough time. But I don't know, I don't know if I have a favorite. I just like to be out there with people I enjoy spending time with. And if I shoot 70 or 170, it doesn't really matter, I'll never shoot 70 or 170, it doesn't really matter, I'll never shoot 70. But you know, it's about the experience more than the facility.
Speaker 1:Old course, on your bucket list then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I need to get back over there. There's a few other places to play over there as well. You?
Speaker 1:got Prairie Dunes off your list here in Kansas.
Speaker 2:I do not. I got one up on you then yeah, I've known several superintendents there, including the current one, and I need to go see him because he has a bunch of Rain Bird products for sale after their irrigation renovation. But yeah, I have not crossed that one off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good one. Dream foursome you talked about the people you play with being more important than the golf course. Do you have a dream foursome? Is it family? Is it celebrities? What would that look like for you?
Speaker 2:I don't know, it would probably be it could be a five-some too.
Speaker 2:We'll allow that it might have to be two groups or maybe more, but it would probably be people that are no longer here my father never. I think I maybe played golf with my father one time. He wasn't a big golfer, but um would be one um, anybody in my family. Uh, two um other than that. You know, I just it if I've got somebody, if I'm playing golf with somebody who has some, we have some shared interest and we can go spend two to five hours together and not talk about golf.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:At least the part of the golf that we live in.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Would be a pretty good. Pretty good foursome or fivesome or tensome, however many people we have.
Speaker 1:All right, last last one. Well, first off, let me have you ever had a hole in one?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Okay Well, so this question is very appropriate. Which one? You can only have one, a hole-in-one or Iowa State winning a national championship, and you can pick basketball or football, either one. Which one are you taking?
Speaker 2:Easy Iowa State national championships Good. If you'd said K-State, I'd have gone that direction. Yeah, I would never say K-State in a million years. Or KU. They already have national titles anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. Well, we have debate and K-State's got debate and meet, judging and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, national champions, pretty proud of that Debate and meet judging. Hope you like your steaks, homegrown baby. How are they going? I have a fridge full of them at home, freezer full at home. We're making some tonight. The girls are back in town.
Speaker 1:Well, awesome, Jeff White. Thank you so much, man, for taking the time to do this. Appreciate it and continued success with everything. Really appreciate you doing this and hosting us here at the fabulous Indian Hills Country Club.
Speaker 2:Well, I will take some time to say thank you for having me one, and also for those who don't know, this will be the last one, probably the last one that Scott hosts for us, because he has decided to move on and pursue another career opportunity, similar business and folks we all know, but we do appreciate everything you've done for us over the years and um you will be missed thank you luckily we're some quasi neighbors. I won't, you're not for me, you're not going away no, I'll still.
Speaker 1:I'll still pass to you and yeah, it's um this, this is one. We've actually been banging out a couple of these um this this week um, uh, trying to kind of help help the folks staying behind. Keep, keep this thing going. I'm going to miss it a lot. I'm going to miss the people, I'm going to miss the job. I'm going to miss this podcast. It is fun to have these opportunities to do this but, as you and I both know, when we look in the mirror, we're not getting any younger. And this opportunity came up and it was a very hard decision. But I'm excited about the opportunity and excited to still be around. I mean, we'll get away with not seeing me, like in San Diego at a conference and show next year. So thanks for saying that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:No thanks for everything you've done and I appreciate your time and effort with us and, like I said, this will not be the last time our paths cross.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not Jeff White, our guest today on the GCSA podcast. Thanks, Jeff. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Episode 63 of the GCSA podcast. I want to thank Jeff White, CGCS, for giving us the time that he did today and for being so open about his career in golf and his plans for his year as the association's 87th president. I've been lucky to call Jeff a friend for a long time and know that he has nothing but the association's and the industry's best interests at heart as he moves through his year in office, so can't wait to see what comes next for Jeff.
Speaker 1:Also need to thank everyone again from Indian Hills Country Club for their hospitality during our recording session, and I want to thank my colleagues Tyler Stover and Roger Billings for all their help on the tech side of making this one possible. As always, more episodes of the podcast are on the way, so keep a close eye on your feeds for all of those. But for now, let me say goodbye by thanking podcast editor Evan Shapiro, everyone at Enview for their continued support of the podcast, the GCSAA board of directors and the fantastic staff at association headquarters in Lawrence, Kansas, and, of course, my thanks to each of you for subscribing, downloading and listening Until next time. Stay safe, stay healthy and thank you for listening to the GCSA podcast.